Tuesday, April 20, 2010

Symposium: tax/medicare cuts, and the legality of taxes

Todd and CodLiverOilGuy first discuss Dear Leader mocking the Tea Party and their ungratefulness towards his supposed "tax breaks;" the discussion then transitions to the upcoming Medicare cuts due to the health care, ahem, reform bill (thanks liberals), and finally to the legalized robbery that is taxes.

Todd: I came across this article; wow, what a fool this man is…guaranteed taxes WILL go up, won’t they? I would love to see campaign ads with his statement followed by statistics, facts, etc regarding increased taxes, plus the almost-certain VAT that’s forthcoming…

“Via Dan Riehl, this may well be the single most obnoxious soundbite he’s uttered since his immortal bitter/clinger bon mot during the campaign. Which, if I’m not mistaken, also occurred at a fundraiser. Funny, the thoughts that bubble up when he’s among friends.”

CLOG: Levin went over the litany of taxes (and Medicare cuts) that are in the pipeline right now. Tax cuts, indeed. I’ve heard some whoppers before but this guy delivers them every time he opens his mouth. His smugness is sickening as well but we get to put up with it for 1007 more days. Ugh.

Todd: Regarding the Medicare cuts; that was one of the more nefarious moves made by Congress, IMO, especially the cuts to the only solvent aspect of Medicare: Medicare Advantage…

Regarding the smugness, I believe it was Harry Truman who stated that humility is one of the most important characteristics a president can exhibit. This guy is so far removed from humility that it’s disgusting, and of course the media is carrying his water for him, STILL TO THIS DAY, even though the public is fed up with the media and it’s costing them…I don’t know what will happen to this country if he’s elected again.

CLOG: The Medicare cuts might have an immediate impact on my mother since she has not used her benefits yet. As the cuts take hold within hospitals and doctor’s offices, they may stop taking new Medicare patients. So even though she is covered by Medicare, she might be shut out of the system because it will not be accepted, leaving her effectively without insurance. So let me now say the THANK YOU that DL thinks he deserves.

I think the MSM is starting to crack under the load of losing viewers and ad revenue. Ultimately, they have to make a profit. CNN was the first to be forced to tell the truth just to remain in business. Will others follow? As long as the propaganda machine is engaged, DL will continue with his almost 50% approval rate by the drones. Even the drones though may start to rethink their positions if they are elderly or have elderly parents covered by Medicare and having DRONE CENTRAL off the air will help.

Todd: Per your mom, I think that was a big part of why people were so pissed off at the various townhalls…they saw that the elderly would be affected primarily (and I think we saw that from many seniors who showed up at the townhalls)…where is the outrage there? This seems part and parcel with the whole rationing/death panel aspect that Sarah Palin was skewered for…but very much a REALITY

CLOG: The simple logic behind HC is easy to see. First, defund the existing program, Medicare, so it dies in the marketplace. Next, add into 10-15 million new people into an existing system that is already over burdened. Third, existing HC workers see this huge influx of patients and see less funding of Medicare as well as additional taxes needed for the new HC system. They instantly know that they will be working OT with little or no extra pay. DL put the knife into our entire HC system by de-motivating all of the workers. Many doctors will leave. Many nurses will leave. Those doctors/nurses that migrate in will probably be less talented and less motivated.

Death panels and rationing are a given in this situation. Palin saw this right away and realized it was the ruination of our existing system, that the new HC is simply a way to buy votes but actually destroys our current system and replaces it with a sham of a system.

Many seniors see this too and are upset because they are in the phase of their lives when they need HC the most, yet the system is deteriorating. That is not fair. Of course DL sees it as fair since any system that allows him to use taxpayer money to buy votes is OK with him.

Todd: Another interesting article

“The percentage-based income tax has been by far the greatest accelerator of big government in the United States. This is because it guarantees government a vast steady income independent of the government’s policies or plans to spend the money. Payroll deduction, meanwhile, makes employers the tax collectors, and eliminates key elements of the natural “friction” that used to attend the collection of taxes. Your income taxes are collected from you without any exertion, decision, or conscious act of compliance on your part. You don’t even have to go buy something, as you do to pay sales tax or property tax. You just have to be doing what most people want to do anyway: working for your daily bread and the roof over your head.”

Do you buy the tenets espoused here?

CLOG: Oh, ya, this guy is right on about taxes. Here’s the key IMO:
Moreover, it becomes illegal to not report income to the government. Think about that for a minute. Why should it be? Why should government, or you or I, know what anyone’s income is – other than the incomes of government employees? What valid purpose of government is served by pursuing that information? Can you see how the destructive political purposes of agitators are served by our current system, without achieving any legitimate goal of governance? Consider that if government didn’t account for everyone’s income as if knowing it were a public entitlement, we would have a much harder time mentally classifying ourselves in the politically divisive manner we are now so accustomed to.

All money earned should be earned tax free. We should only be taxed when we use that money: sales tax, gas taxes, luxury taxes, capital gains, and so on. But before ANY taxes happen, the worker should receive EVERY penny they earned. If they want or can they can stuff that under a mattress and no one should care. The worker earned that money fair and square and should be able to keep ALL of the fruits of his/her labor. Dot gov has instead placed themselves in-line with our income generation, so they IMMEDIATELY take their cut every two weeks, just like a two-bit hood working for the Mafia taking protection money. It is legalized robbery in my opinion as it means we work for the government BEFORE we work for ourselves. That is contrary to the principle of liberty and freedom; it is true slavery, wage slavery, and our governments are our ‘Massa’s’ and long have been.

Also, should we not be able to choose how our taxes are spent? As the producers of income, should we not have a say in whether it goes to social programs, to infrastructure, or to R&D? Dot gov takes that money and it SIMPLY DISAPPEARS from my radar. In fact we are all told so often that dot gov has a right to this money (or it is our obligation to pay, with or without patriotic overtones), that we can’t conceive of a society without taxes. Really? Are we that brain dead? If we can choose how the tax money is spent, at least we have some control on our countries destiny. This way, whatever yahoo is in the WH can spend the money however he or she wishes.

As the author says it produces political division, which is the basis for the socialist classes and class struggle and hey we see the rise of liberalism partially BECAUSE OF TAX POLICY.

Dot gov is uncaringly bankrupting us:
What this [paying high taxes] did in my life, as it does for all of us, is put a lower lid on what I could afford than my income by itself would have dictated.

We accept this lower standard. Ya, we really do but should we? Why do we put up with it? Why is this acceptable? Finally:
There is a great deal wrong, however, with government claiming first dibs on the product of our labor to the extent that we end up having substantially less than we are actually working for – particularly in terms of economic and financial choice.
If the average American hadn’t had to work until 9 April to pay taxes, he could afford to buy his own health insurance much better. Indeed, if government didn’t levy various constraints on health insurance, it would cost a lot less to begin with. More people would be able to stay in the homes that are being foreclosed, if every transaction we all concluded weren’t subject to both taxes and regulation. More could have bought in the first place without being overextended. More people would still have their jobs today. Young people would have an easier time breaking into the work force. More people would save more, if they started working for themselves earlier in the year. Seriously, why should government make our labor worth less to us – arbitrarily – at the level of interference it has currently achieved? Why should it go for more?
That is the way to talk about taxes.
Amen is all I can say.

Todd: That’s the thing about the VAT…something like that works ONLY if you eliminate the other taxes, IMO.

What about property taxes? They seem as slimy as it comes…I have no evidence to back this up, but it’s just another way for .GOV to steal from us…like I said, I can’t put my finger, but it seems pretty nefarious.

What’s the way to change this culture? BO has concocted this culture of “gorging the beast,” so contrarian to what Reagan proposed. What gives .GOV the right to steal from us?

CLOG: It is always MORE taxes. We get tax cuts sometimes but they never last. Dot gov always needs more and they continually find ways to dig into our pockets. The federal income tax was only ‘temporarily’ instituted to fund WWI but it never went away. Then states got into the act with state income taxes. Then sales taxes. Then fees for licenses ad nauseum. Then taxes on energy, liquor and cigarettes. It just never ends. Now VAT is on the horizon. You can bet that VAT will be placed on top of existing taxes and not be there in place of existing taxes. An additional irony is even with record levels of taxation and revenue .gov still has to borrow even MORE and put us into debt on top of it. This is how irresponsible they have become, mortgaging our future to the hilt.

Dot gov doesn’t seem to care that by sucking all of this revenue out of the private economy, they stifle economic growth, that somehow they can continue to take this money and the economy will continue to absorb it forever. We have reached the point where the level of taxation coupled with an economic downturn is now DESTROYING our economy and even threatens our social fabric. This is absolute irresponsibility on the part of .gov but they don’t seem to care. It’s just more, more, more like a 2-year old throwing a tantrum. They are now killing the goose that lays the golden eggs and pretty soon what will be left?

Seriously, I don’t know how to stop this irresponsible behavior. Dot gov has grown into morbid obesity and is crushing and suffocating us all. Do I have to leave this land? Protests don’t work. There are too many children on our ballots and too many children voting for that matter. Maybe the fed/state feud will heat up over the 10th Amendment and some states will secede. Maybe I will get a chance to move into one of those common sense states. I don’t think MN will be one of the seceding states though.

Todd: Is secession the only recourse? Are we so far gone that this is the only option? Is it too late to find any responsible civil servants will “starve the beast,” as Reagan put it? OR, was Colin Powell, we all need government in our lives? Can we not make do without excessive government? That’s the problem: government has permeated our very fabric (as you stated below); it’s like a weed or a cockroach.

CLOG: I hope secession is not in the cards but the federal government keeps acting with absolute fiscal irresponsibility. They should be putting the brakes on spending, cutting back on .gov jobs and benefits, reducing or eliminating departments, reducing the regulatory burden and so on. Instead they GROW and put us all further into debt. This is a formula guaranteed to break our back economically. How that will express itself is anyone’s guess but it is probably now inevitable. Certainly, the early expression is increased joblessness (as an aside, I read one forum posting from TN that a $14/hr job was advertised and received 4000 resumes in response), reduced economic activity (many more small businesses can not get the loans they need), and market mal-adjustment (why is gas hovering near $3/gallon when there is a glut of crude on the world market?).

As long as the Dems are in control we cannot expect .gov to deviate from their current irresponsible behavior. It will probably get worse. We will get a little relief after the 2010 elections, maybe slow things down a bit, but it seems that .gov is driving our country toward national default. This will mean instant poverty for almost everyone and probably the start of WWIII. Maybe that is the plan, eh?

No comments: